I need to buy a 30 minute fire seal - which product should I buy?
First of all, please do remember that adding a fire seal to any door doesn't automatically make it a fire door. Do make sure that you have a properly tested fire door construction.
Also, please remember that not all fire doors are the same - so there's no single answer to this question! The first thing to check is the door manufacturer's test evidence for the door you have - whatever type and size (or sizes) of seal they have tested with is what you should buy.
Where door manufacturer's test evidence isn't available, the usual recommendation is to use a 15 x 4mm seal, fitted centrally at the head and both jambs of a single leaf, single acting door. (If you are in any doubt, or have a particular application you would like to discuss, please contact our Technical Services team on +(0) 1626 834252 for details).
If it's a fire and smoke door (which will be denoted FD30S), then do also remember that a fire seal alone will not be sufficient - you should purchase a combined smoke and fire seal, such as the Lorient DS. Don't forget to seal the threshold too - you may find our FAQ on threshold sealing helpful.
I have an existing fire rated door, but I have been told that it needs to provide smoke containment too. What do you recommend?
The first product we would always recommend you consider is our Batwing® seal. With proven performance for acoustic and smoke containment, a choice of sizes for different applications, and ultra-low frictional resistance for ease of door operation, it's an exceptional all-round solution. As it fixes onto the doorstop with strong self-adhesive tape, it's easy to install and you won't need to remove your door to fit it.
Alternatively, our perimeter seals, face-fixed to the door stop provide a good option, and several have been designed to accommodate uneven doors.
If you have double leaf doors, remember you will need to fit a seal at the meeting stile too.
And don't forget the threshold! - it's essential to seal it for effective smoke containment (please refer to our FAQ on threshold sealing for more information!). We have face-fixed options in both our door bottom seals and drop seals that can be installed without removing the door.
Do I need to fit a threshold seal - and if so, why?
Watch our quick video where our Fire Safety Consultant answers this common query for you here.
BS 9999 (an Approved Document to the Building Regulations for England & Wales) states that if a fire rated door has a gap of over 3mm at the threshold, then you do need to fit a threshold seal. It's very difficult to know before the door is installed whether the gap will be over or under 3mm, so we do always recommend fitting a threshold seal. There are other reasons for this too. It is often assumed that the threshold is a low-risk area, but extensive research has proven that this is definitely not the case - an unsealed threshold presents a major cold smoke hazard. That is why undercutting the threshold of a door leaf to provide extra ventilation is extremely risky too, both in practice and principle. Threshold sealing is also essential for acoustic containment, as an acoustic sealing system will only truly be effective if it incorporates every gap around the door, and that includes the threshold. For more information on our threshold seals, please refer to our door bottom seals or drop seals.
Can you paint over fire and smoke seals?
Over-painting of fire seals should not compromise performance in a fire situation - however, do not paint over smoke seals as this will certainly compromise smoke containment performance. If the smoke seal part of the seal has already been painted over, you will need to replace the smoke seal. Our seals are available in a range of colours, plus woodgrain and metallic finishes, so over-painting should not be necessary.
I need to fit a weather seal to an external door. What do you recommend?
I'm working on a hospital project that needs a sealing system that will stand up to rigorous cleaning. What do you recommend?
We'd recommend you consider using a stainless steel sealing system from our range. There are perimeter and threshold sealing products included, and both the carriers and gaskets are impervious to most strong cleaning chemicals, making them ideal for hospitals. Please click to link to the following pages:
Please note that while these seals will provide a comprehensive smoke sealing solution, if you have a fire rated door then an appropriate fire seal should be fitted in addition.
Approved Document M says that doors need to be easy for everyone to use. Which of your products do you suggest?
Many of our products have been designed with ease of access in mind, and the seals we recommend will provide exceptionally low frictional resistance to ensure the seal interferes as little as possible with the smooth operation of the doorset.
For a combined acoustic, smoke and fire sealing solution, we recommend you take a look at our Finesse™ or DS seal. Please remember that traditional brush-style fire & smoke seals provide very high levels of frictional resistance, so won't be suitable.
For acoustic and smoke containment only, either for new door assemblies or as a retrofit solution, our Batwing® seal is ideal - we've re-engineered the fins now into a unique curved design, so they provide even less resistance.
Alternatively, any of our perimeter seals mounted onto the doorstop (eg, our LAS7001 si), will provide a compression seal that will provide minimal interference.
It's vital to have a seal at the threshold for effective acoustic and smoke containment, and our drop seals (eg, our LAS8005 si) have been designed with high efficiency mechanisms, so doors can be opened with the minimum of effort.
We also offer a range of threshold ramps for situations where different floor levels need to be accommodated.
What standards and regulations relate to fire & smoke containment for doors?
I've heard about Document E - but how does it relate to doors?
The revisions to Approved Document E to the Building Regulations for England and Wales came into effect on 1 July 2003. From that date, all planning applications requiring Building Control approval, and work carried out under Building Notice procedures, has to comply with the revised regulations.
Much of Document E relates to the acoustic performance of floors, ceilings and walls. However, for the first time, the acoustic performance of door assemblies in a number of situations is also specifically detailed.
Requirement E1 states that: “Dwelling-houses, flats and rooms for residential purposes, shall be designed and constructed in such a way that they provide reasonable resistance to sound from other parts of the same building and from adjoining buildings.”
Document E also goes on to give specific guidance about the acoustic performance of doorsets: “Ensure that any door has good perimeter sealing (including the threshold where practical), and a minimum mass per unit area of 25kg/m2 or a minimum sound reduction index of 29dB Rw (measured according to BS EN ISO 10140-1:2016
and rated according to BS EN ISO 717-1:2013
). The door should also satisfy the Requirements of Building Regulation Part B – Fire safety.”
Requirement E4 covers acoustic conditions in schools, and incorporates Building Bulletin 93 as the recommended way of meeting the requirements. BB93 requires an acoustic performance for doorsets of 30dB Rw, and for music rooms, 35dB Rw.
Lorient's recommended sealing systems are specifically designed to enable these requirements to be met. It is important to remember that, while Document E says the threshold should be sealed “where practical”, extensive testing has proven that it is essential to do this in order to achieve the required level of acoustic performance.
For more information please download our Acoustic Sealing Systems for Door Assemblies brochure.
I need to achieve the highest acoustic rating possible on a standard door, can you help?
Our recommended acoustic seals will certainly help you get the best acoustic performance possible from the door assembly you have - but it's important to remember that no sealing system will improve the acoustic performance of the door leaf itself. Every door leaf will have a maximum acoustic performance, which will have been determined by testing the door construction with all the gaps around the edges filled (caulked). Many combinations of our seals have been proven to maintain a door leaf's acoustic performance to the same level as if the gaps were filled, and that's the best acoustic performance you will be able to achieve.
Some of our recommended solutions are as follows - please click on the links to product page links for more information:
For fire rated doors, our DS or Finesse™ combined acoustic, smoke and fire seals - the complete solution in one seal. Both the DS and Finesse™ have been proven to achieve an acoustic performance of 31dB Rw on a standard architectural solid door core, when tested in conjunction with a Lorient LAS8001 si drop seal.
For non-fire rated doors, we would always recommend our Batwing® acoustic and smoke seal. It has also achieved 31dB Rw on a standard architectural solid door core, when tested in conjunction with a Lorient LAS8001 si drop seal.
Do remember it is essential to fit a threshold seal to complete the system. You may find it helpful to read our FAQ on threshold sealing.
To find out more about our recommended acoustic solutions, please refer to our Acoustic Sealing Systems for Door Assemblies brochure. This also contains more information about how doors are tested, and the acoustic performance of various types of standard door construction.
We also offer a CPD seminar, entitled “Performance Door Design: The Basics of Sound Reduction”. Please visit our CPD Seminars page for more information.
I need to fit a glazing panel into a door that also needs to provide acoustic performance. How can I do this?
This won't be a problem, provided that thick enough glass is used, with an appropriate sealing system, and the size of the aperture is limited. Conventional “Georgian Wired” glass has been tested in conjunction with our System-36/6 PLUS glazing gasket, and this provides optimum acoustic performance for most types of door construction, including FD30 and FD30S doors. This will allow for up to 0.16m2 (eg, an 800mm x 200mm or 650mm x 250mm glazing panel) to be incorporated into the door without having a significant impact on the acoustic performance. If you wish to use other glass types or larger sizes, please contact our Technical Services team.
If I fit a drop seal, do I need to fit a threshold plate too?
A threshold plate is a good idea, for several reasons:
- It will help to ensure a good seal is maintained at the threshold, by giving a firm surface for the drop seal to rest against.
- It can help to prevent weather ingress when used as part of a storm-guard system (such as our LAS3008).
- If you are sealing dissimilar surfaces (eg, carpet and vinyl), the threshold plate can cover the join to prevent both wear and tripping hazards. Our threshold ramps can also easily accommodate differences in floor heights, to make access easier for all.
- If your floor surface is particularly liable to wear and tear in places below the door (eg, a high level of traffic, or over a carpet that may become compressed over time), then a threshold plate will help to prevent these uneven areas affecting the threshold sealing.
Please refer to our threshold plates and ramps for further details.
What standards and regulations relate to acoustic containment for doors?
Please click here to link to our Standards and Regulations section
I have a standard fire rated door - can I add a glazing panel to it?
It depends on the test evidence for the door - you will need to check this with the door manufacturer. As long as the door was fire tested with a glazing panel installed, then yes you can install a glazing panel, up to the same size (in area) that was tested, and in the same place in the door leaf.
Lorient's systems have also been tested in typical fire rated door constructions, and we hold extensive test evidence ourselves which allows for glazing panels to be fitted, up to certain sizes - please refer to our Fire Resistant Glazing Systems page and brochure (available to download from this website) for more details, or contact our Technical Services team on +44 (0)1626 834252 if you would like to discuss your specific application.
If you are installing the doors on site, do also remember that cutting apertures for glazing (and other apertures) in a fire door on site is not permitted under the BWF-CERTIFIRE Fire Door and Doorset Scheme, even by an approved aperture cutter. This should only be done at an approved BWF glazing centre. You may also find this link to the BWF helpful, and particularly the fact card on Fire Resistant Glazing.
What's the maximum size of glazing panel I can fit into a fire rated door?
You will need to refer to your door manufacturer's test evidence, as this will show the maximum size of glazing panel you can fit. The sizes shown in our Fire Resistant Glazing Systems brochure relate to the sizes in Lorient's own test evidence - but if the test evidence for your door shows a smaller size, then that is the maximum size you can fit.
What standards and regulations relate to fire resistant glazing?
I need to put a letterplate into my fire rated door - but the door needs to provide acoustic performance too. What do you recommend?
We'd suggest you look at our Firemaster letterplate. It has been acoustically tested in a typical FD30 door leaf, with minimal impact on the acoustic performance of the door.
I've fitted your wide angle viewer, but the image is fuzzy. What's the problem?
It could be that you have your eye too close to the glass. The benefit of the wide angle viewer is that you can stand some way back from the glass and still see a clear image (which is much safer) - but if you stand too close the image will be fuzzy. Try standing 8-10” back from the glass.
What lead times do you offer on your products?
We know our products often need to be with customers quickly, so we do keep most of our more popular products in stock. If the products you require are on our shelves, your account is in good standing, then we will, where possible, despatch the goods the same day. That usually means the goods will be received the next working day (guaranteed timed deliveries can be arranged if required).
Given the number of colours, sizes and special profiles we offer, there may be times when the products will need to be specially manufactured. Where this is the case, we recommend allowing a lead time of 7-10 days - but if we can despatch the goods any more quickly than that, then of course we will.
I need your products on site tomorrow - can you ship these out for me today?
Yes, we can deliver direct to site. Guaranteed timed deliveries can be arranged on request for an extra charge - please contact our Customer Service Team on +44 (0)1626 837555 for details. Please refer to the FAQ on lead times for more information.
How can I check stock availability of your products?
Many of our more popular products are held in stock, ready for quick despatch. To check availability, please contact our Customer Service Team on +44 (0)1626 834252, or e-mail: firstname.lastname@example.org. Please remember to include your company name and telephone number so we can respond to your enquiry without delay.
What's your UK carriage charge?
Deliveries of a value of £200.00 or more (excluding VAT) are delivered to locations in the UK mainland free of charge, using our standard carrier service. That includes deliveries direct to site. If the value of your delivery is less than £200.00, then a carriage charge of £13.95 applies. Guaranteed timed deliveries can be arranged on request for an extra charge - please contact our Customer Service Team on +44 (0)1626 837555 for details.
Can you supply certification for your products?
Many of our products hold CERTIFIRE certification - an accredited independent product conformity scheme. Copies of our CERTIFIRE certificates are available to download throughout this site, against relevant products, or from our certification page.
We are also the only manufacturer of acoustic, smoke and fire seals to hold BBA certification on our mainstream range of seals. Again, our certificate is available to download from our certification page.
We extensively test our products, and hold a huge library of test evidence. Copies are freely available for customers on request. Please contact our Technical Services team on +44 (0)1626 834252 for more information.
Can you supply health and safety details for your products?
Yes - both SDS (safety datasheets), and COSHH information sheets where relevant are available on request. Please contact our Technical Sevices team on +44 (0)1626 834252 for details.
What is the Fire Safety Bill?
On the 19th March 2020, The Home Office introduced the new Fire Safety Bill, in an effort to improve fire safety in buildings in England and Wales. The Bill has passed through the parliamentary process to become law – The Fire Safety Act 2021.
Set to amend the Fire Safety Order 2005, the Fire Safety Act 2021 (as it is now known) has been designed to “ensure that people feel safe in their homes, and a tragedy like the Grenfell Tower fire never happens again” in England.
The Home Office has set out clarification to who is accountable for reducing the risk of fires – the duty-holder/building owner for multi-occupied, residential buildings. They must manage the risk of fire for:
- The structure and external walls of the building (e.g. cladding, balconies and windows)
- Entrance doors to individual flats that open into communal areas
The fire risk assessment for a building/premises will therefore be required to cover both of these two areas. At a Barbour EHS webinar in March, Matthew Canham from the National Fire Chiefs Council highlighted the Bill is likely to affect around 1.7m residential properties in England and Wales, with a significant impact on workload for fire risk assessors needing access to balconies, doors etc., as well as the overall construction/refurbishment processes.
The Fire Safety Act is also designed to provide a foundation for secondary legislation which won’t require another Act of Parliament, based upon the recommendations made from the Grenfell Tower Inquiry. Extra measures may include responsibility for lift inspections, the reviewing of evacuation plans and fire safety instructions to residents.
It is applicable to England and Wales only.
I need to fit a glazed screen/partition - which of your products do you recommend?
We do have test evidence for our fire resistant glazing systems for use in screens/partitions. The system we would recommend will depend on the type of glass you are using and the level of fire protection you need to achieve (30, 60 or 90 minutes).
Full details are available in our Fire Resistant Glazing Systems brochure, available to download here.
Can we buy from you direct, or can you tell me your nearest distributor?
You can buy from us direct - if you don't have a credit account with us, then it will be on a proforma invoice basis though. However, it may be easier and more beneficial for you to buy through one of our recommended distributors. Please contact our Sales Team on +44 (0)1626 837555 or click below for details of your nearest stockist.
I've heard that some seals on the market can achieve acoustic ratings of around 40-50dB Rw. Is that right?
You need to be very careful when you look at the acoustic rating of door seals. The door and the sealing system always work in combination, so the only way to really know how a seal will perform in practice is to test it on a full-size, working door assembly. Lorient always do that, and we'd suggest you ask for a copy of the full test evidence for any seal that claims to offer exceptionally high acoustic performance ratings. Do be careful if you find that any part of the door perimeter has been artificially caulked (filled) for testing purposes; or that the door assembly was smaller than it would be in reality; or that a non-standard door construction was used - any of these things may result in the seal being given an 'artificial' acoustic performance that it couldn't actually achieve in practice.
We're more than happy to provide specifiers and Lorient customers with a copy of our test evidence so you can make an informed choice!
What's the difference between a brush smoke seal and one with fins?
Brush seals were the first on the market (in fact, Lorient were the first to introduce them, back in 1979!), and hence they have popular appeal as the traditional smoke seal solution. Although they are still effective as smoke seals, the Building Regulations have moved on since they were introduced, most notably with the requirement for doors to provide acoustic containment, and also be easy to operate to allow access for all. With so many doors now needing to conform to these new requirements, the brush-style smoke seal is simply not up to the challenge any more. Brushes are particularly poor at providing acoustic containment, as the brush fibers allow air to pass straight through, and therefore sound too. They also provide plenty of friction, which makes doors more difficult to operate.
Fin-style seals provide a much more modern, comprehensive and indeed hygienic solution. They have better acoustic containment properties (particularly ones with dual fins) and much lower frictional resistance.
It's important though that the fin seal remains continuous around ironmongery for both acoustic and smoke containment - but this can be a challenge if the seal has centrally positioned fins. Offset fins make this much easier. This is why Lorient have introduced the Finesse™ and DS seals, with offset dual fins, for a complete acoustic, smoke, fire and low-friction solution.
The durability of some fin-style seals has been questioned in the market at times - but Lorient have extensively tested the DS, cycling it 1,000,000 times (10 times the usual industry level) on a full-size door assembly, without failure. As long as the seal is correctly installed, and the doors are suitably maintained, it will provide years of reliable service. The Finesse™ seal has been similarly tested too. It's unique in the industry, as its fins start at the base of the product and wrap around the sides of seal, both helping to hold it securely in place in the groove, and provide extra durability.
How does a fire resistant air transfer grille work?
Our fire resistant air transfer grilles are constructed with intumescent material contained within the slats of the grille. In the event of a fire, the intumescent material expands, forming a solid block to stop the passage of fire. This video shows an LHV44 intumescent air transfer grille in a fire test. This sequence happens in real time from the point the furnace is lit.
How does a fire and smoke resistant air transfer grille work?
Our fire and smoke resistant air transfer grilles (ATGs) work in the same way as a fire resistant ATG, but they also incorporate an electro mechanically operated smoke shutter mechanism. In the event of an alarm condition, or power failure, the shutters close, preventing the passage of cold smoke. The smoke shutters can be seen in action here: https://vimeo.com/389931199
What is the difference between the LVH44 and the LVV40?
The Lorient LVV40 is a fire resistant air transfer grille. It is constructed from PVC slats with an intumescent core; when exposed to heat, the intumescent expands to form a solid block to stop fire from spreading. The Lorient LVH44 is also a fire resistant air transfer grille, but it is constructed from Z275 grade galvanised steel, and therefore suitable for external applications.
Do you have air transfer grilles for fire doors?
Yes, our air transfer grilles have been tested with timber, mineral composite and steel fire doors. Simply filter the ATG Product Selector to 'doors' to view all of our tested applications: http://lorientuk.com/grilles/results
Do you have air transfer grilles suitable for fire rated (FR) flexible walls?
Yes, the LVV40 and LVH44 fire resistant air transfer grilles and the LVV40S and LVH44S fire and smoke resistant air transfer grilles can be used in FR flexible walls. More information can be found on our ATG Product Selector App here: https://www.lorientuk.com/gril...
Do you have air transfer grilles for ducts?
Yes, we have a number of tested solutions for both circular and rectangular plastic and steel ducts. Simply filter the ATG Product Selector to ‘ducts’ to view all of the tested applications: https://www.lorientuk.com/gril...
Do your air transfer grilles offer cold smoke protection?
Our fire resistant air transfer grilles offer protection against fire and hot smoke. For cold smoke protection, a fire and smoke resistant air transfer grille with Talkback Damper System would be needed.
What is the Talkback Damper System?
The Talkback Damper System is a centralised status monitoring control unit that is designed to work with up to 16 fire and smoke resistant air transfer grilles, including: LVN20S, LVN25S, LVV40S, LVH20S and LVH44S. A unique 2-way communication system operates between the Damper Control and Monitor Unit (DCM) and the air transfer grille actuators. These are connected, via a control panel, to a standard fire alarm system. In the event of an alarm condition, or power failure, the shutters close, preventing the passage of cold smoke.
Can audio alarms be added to the Talkback System?
Yes. An extra optional audio warning device (AMS) can be connected to the DCM wiring circuit.
Can a battery backup be added to the Talkback system?
Yes, a separate battery backup can be installed within the Talkback system to cover short term power loss, this is only available from Lorient.
How do I wire a DCM system?
The Talkback DCM wiring instructions and fault finding chart can be found here.
Do I have to use the Lorient Talkback system with Lorient Fire & Smoke Air Transfer Grilles?
Yes, our Talkback system includes a Damper Control Monitor (DCM) which is required as it communicates with the individual fire and smoke control ATGs and notifies the user if a smoke control shutter malfunctions. The DCM uses a multiplex signal to communicate with the ATG’s, which allows it to monitor each ATG’s state and also cycle them every 24hrs to ensure the system is fully functional.
What are the free areas for your air transfer grilles?
The free area characteristics of our air transfer grilles can be found here: shorturl.at/mvM89
I need an air transfer grille in a size that you don't list in your brochure. What can I do?
With our LVH44 high performance intumescent air transfer grille, we have the production flexibility to make bespoke sizes, so please call us on +44 (0)1626 834252 to discuss exactly what you need.
For larger apertures, the LVH44 can also be installed as part of a modular system, up to a maximum size of 3600mm x 1200mm for 120 minutes fire protection in a rigid wall application (1200mm x 600mm for floors). Please contact us if your application exceeds these sizes.
Can you put more than one air transfer grille in a door?
Only if the fire door has been fire tested with more than one aperture. This is normally in the form of vision panels. The total size of the apertures should not exceed the allowable aperture size as part of the doors test evidence.
Can air transfer grilles be used in a humid environment?
For humid environments we would suggest our LVH range of ATG’s as the intumescent is not hydroscopic.
Can air transfer grilles be used in external walls?
We would suggest our LVH range of ATG’s for external walls. We also do a WHF75 weather louver for external applications.
Are intumescent liners always required with air transfer grilles?
An intumescent liner is normally recommended for use with our fire and smoke resistant air transfer grilles when used in fire doors. Otherwise, Lorient intumescent sealant is recommended to seal that gap around the fire rated air transfer grille. Our ATG installation manual will state what the required method is for sealing each type of air transfer grille.
Could I turn my fire resistant air transfer grille into a fire and smoke resisting air transfer grille?
In some cases a smoke control shutter LVHCTD can be added within a duct to provide smoke protection to an existing fire rated air transfer grille fitted within the same duct. Details of this can be found on page 23 in our Fire and Smoke resistant air transfer grilles brochure.
Do I have to use a Lorient cover grille?
In most cased, Lorient fire test air transfer grilles without cover grilles which gives the option to fit cover grilles if required. This can be a Lorient cover grille or a similar cover grille supplied by another manufacturer. However, if a fire and insulation rating is required, then Lorient cover grilles are required as part of the system.
Is there a specific sealant that I need to use?
If an intumescent sealant is required to seal the gap around Lorient ATG’s, Lorient intumescent sealant should be used as this is what was tested with our fire rated air transfer grilles.
Do you offer any maintenance and commissioning services for your air transfer grilles?
Yes, we offer a professional and expert air transfer grille commissioning service for fire and smoke dampers. We check and test the installation and components of your air transfer grilles; and issue a fully detailed service report, highlighting status and compliance. Call us on +44 (0)1626 834252 to discuss.